All posts tagged Monstros

O agora mais legal e bacana do que nunca James Wyatt postou em seu blog uma longa explicação do porque Forgotten Realms não vai ter seu avanço na timeline (de uns 100 anos eu acho) cancelado assim como seu irmão mais novo, e mais genial, Eberron teve ontem, e repudiando os ataques e ofensas ao Rich Baker – responsabilizado pelos fanáticos do cenário que não é tão legal como Eberron como principal causador da mudança.

As I said yesterday, I was very pleased to be the one who got to make the announcement about our change in plans for Eberron. I’m disappointed, though, that it has resulted in my being lauded as a hero while Rich Baker is being raked over the coals on the FR boards and mailing lists.

Rich spends more time on FR stuff than I do, and I spend more time on Eberron stuff than he does. But he and I are part of the same team, and we’re on the same page with the decisions that are being made.

To start with, his post about demons and devils: That’s not entirely his doing. The idea of distinguishing demons from devils is something that goes back to the very first stages of Fourth Edition design. Rich is part of the story team I lead, and I was a part of, and supportive of, every decision about demons and devils he made.

Similarly, he’s not the sole architect of the changes to the Forgotten Realms. Over two years ago, Rich, Bruce Cordell, and Phil Athans from our book department sat down together and hashed out the plan that’s beginning now to bear fruit. At GenCon 2005, the authors who are writing the novels that describe these changes (including Ed Greenwood) came to a top-secret meeting to discuss them. And in the end, it was a plan that was formulated and executed by our whole department, all the way up to Bill Slavicsek, and in consultation with the D&D Brand team.

The fact (unfortunate though it may be) is that Eberron and the Forgotten Realms are two different beasts.

Eberron is still a relatively new setting, and from the start it has taken a very PC-centered approach to events in the world. There aren’t a ton of high-level NPCs running around, doing the things that PCs should be doing. There haven’t been world-shattering events that altered the world and demanded timeline advancement. Its novel line has told stories within the context of the setting without dramatically altering the setting. And its lore consists of a campaign setting book and maybe a dozen sourcebooks.

The Forgotten Realms is steeped in tradition. The setting is nearly as old as D&D is, and its lore consists of thousands of pages of printed material. We recently had the great pleasure of publishing a Grand History of the Realms that was compiled by a devoted fan, turning his hard work into a beautiful product that serves as an excellent compendium of much of that lore. That history includes the Time of Troubles, which served to explain the transition from First Edition AD&D rules to Second Edition. Realms-shaking events have been a staple of the FR novel line, and we’ve worked hard in the past to make sure that events in novels and events in game product stay in sync with each other. (Judging by the fact that I still hear stories about City of the Spider Queen every time I go to GenCon, I have to figure that a lot of those efforts have been very successful.)

In the Forgotten Realms, we have to account for the fact that fans will get up in arms when the game changes how infravision (now darkvision) works, because it makes certain passages in the first Drizzt novels nonsensical. We have to consider how our changes to the cosmology will affect the story told in the War of the Spider Queen books.

And I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. We love FR—really, we do. And we’re making the changes we’re making because we love it.

FR fans, we do hear you, too.

Just last week, my team (me, Rich, Bruce, Chris Sims, and Chris Perkins, who’s my boss) had a long conversation about the changes we’re making to the Forgotten Realms. We asked ourselves some hard questions about the direction we’re taking, based on the questions you folks are raising. We discussed the directions that Rich and Bruce are exploring in the novels they’re writing now, and talked about making sure that the new FR still feels like the FR we all know and love.

So we’re not ignoring you. We just have to respond to you in a different way than we responded to the Eberron fans.

Partly that’s because, quite frankly, we haven’t started work on the new Eberron campaign setting. We’ve had meetings with Keith to talk about new directions, and he and I have both explored some new directions in our novels, but Eberron has a fundamentally different approach to its novel lines. He and I can tell our stories and let you tell your stories, and nobody has to worry about whether they’re the same stories. We can change our tentative plans for the new Eberron book a lot more easily than we can change our FR plans.

For the Forgotten Realms, the decision has been made. It wasn’t made in a vacuum, it wasn’t made without any input from outside these walls, and it wasn’t made lightly. We expected that there would be some outcry, especially during this period between when the word got out and when you get to see the new setting. But we’re still confident that this was the right decision, and pretty excited for you to see what we’re doing.

Why? Because our goal from the start has been to create the best Forgotten Realms campaign guide we could—the best setting for your game. It’s a setting that new players can approach with wonder, enjoying what’s there without worrying about what used to be. And it’s a setting that you established fans can approach with a renewed sense of wonder, recognizing the Realms that you love so much in its newest incarnation. We think you folks will enjoy the story of the transitions, the fantastic events that have changed the face of the world—but not its heart.

Hmm ok James, a gente entendeu que vocês são legais, mas não deixa de ser irônico – lembram que os fãs de FR comemoraram o lançamento do cenário como o primeiro da nova edição? Pois é, bacana demais, quero ver continuarem comemorando agora que o livro básico já esta parcialmente escrito e eles não vão voltar atrás na brilhante idéia de avançar a timeline em 100 anos e trucidar metade dos deuses. Eu prefiro que o Eberron saia em 2009 como eu gosto dele hoje, do que em 2008 patrocinado pelo Dr. Emmett L. Brown e seu DeLorean movido a plutônio.

Na edição mais recente da Design e Development Chris Sims comenta sobre as mudanças entre os diabos e demônios e o que tem sido feito para acentuar as diferenças entre os dois tipos de monstros na quarta edição:

In the real world, “demon” is synonymous with “devil.” “Abyss” and “hell” have a similar relationship. D&D designers have struggled with these facts since 1977 when the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons game depicted demons and devils, the Abyss and the Nine Hells. The original basis for the division was alignment. Aligned planes existed to provide a meaningful afterlife for similarly aligned characters, and a need to fill those planes with natives resulted in demons being distinct from devils. As the game evolved, the original division remained, but too many similarities persisted. The advent of 4th Edition lets us accentuate the differences between the two primary species of fiends.

Throughout demons’ and devils’ existence in the D&D game, resemblances between them have been stronger and more numerous than differences. Both species are extraplanar forces of evil that seek souls to supplement their numbers. Each breed has wretched and implike creatures at the bottom of the hierarchy and godlike archfiends at the top. Each member of both species has a wide array of similar (and often superfluous) supernatural powers. Most demons and devils are superior to members of typical PC races in every way, including incredible intelligence. Their purposes in the material world have always been similar.

In the original AD&D Monster Manual, Gary Gygax admitted that devils “somewhat resemble the demons both in their characteristics and abilities.” AD&D 2nd Edition kept the planar structure of the original game. Demons and devils became tanar’ri and baatezu, respectively, but little made them distinct other than their categorical names. Only a conflict called the Blood War kept them from overrunning the material world. However, this evil-on-evil fight didn’t expand the possibilities for typical D&D play. On the contrary, the Blood War brought the motivations and hierarchy of demons and devils closer together. The 3rd Edition of D&Dretained so many of 2nd Edition’s concepts that it did little to clarify the situation until the release of Fiendish Codex I. Fourth Edition changes all that.

In 4th Edition, the Nine Hells are an astral dominion among other deific abodes in the Astral Sea (more on that in an upcoming Design & Development column). The resident deity is Asmodeus, who as an angel in primeval times, led an army of his fellows against his celestial master and murdered that god. Although Asmodeus gained divine might from his foul deed, he and his followers also suffered their victim’s dying curse. Under the power of that malediction, all the rebellious angels twisted in form and became devils. Worse still, the murdered god’s words transformed Asmodeus’s dominion into a nightmarish place and bound the newborn devils to it. To this day, devils plot to escape their prison, weaving lies and corruption to ensure their eventual freedom and to seize even greater power.

Asmodeus rules Hell with despotic pride, and all devils conform to his strict hierarchy or face destruction. Within the chain of command, lesser devils use whatever power they have to mimic their ultimate leader. Devils work to gain influence in the cosmos, especially among mortals in the world. They eagerly respond to any summons and readily form cleverly worded pacts. They plan and build to meet their needs, making and using all sorts of devices, tools, and weapons. A devil might be supernaturally potent, and it might possess incredible magic items, but its greatest assets are its shrewdly calculating mind and eternal patience. Devils want to impose a sort of order — specifically theirs — on the cosmos.

Not so with demons.

In the Abyss, which gapes like a festering wound in the landscape of the Elemental Tempest, demons teem, eternally divided among themselves simply by their insatiable lust for ruin. Legend says that the Chained God, Tharizdun, found a seed of evil in the young cosmos, and during the gods’ war with the primordials, he threw that seed into the Elemental Tempest. There, the evil seed despoiled all that came into contact with it (some say it tainted Tharizdun himself) and created the Abyss as it burned a hole in the very structure of the plane. Elemental beings that came too close to the Abyss became trapped and warped. Any desire they have turns to the longing to obliterate the gods, creation, and even one another. They became demons.

Most demons are savage and fearless engines of annihilation. Although sometimes driven by unspeakable yearning or by horrifying demon lords to gather in groups, demons have no real organization and no singular aim. Demons don’t negotiate, and they build nothing lasting. Most use tooth and claw rather than artificial weapons. They care little or nothing for souls. Even the mightiest demon lords manipulate other demons by using threats, direct violence, or the promise of more destruction through affiliation. Although the lords of the Abyss that veteran D&D players know and love to hate still exist, no monolithic hierarchy supports any demon’s influence. Although a demon might want to destroy another creature and take that creature’s power, success only results in the winning demon using and squandering what it has seized. Demons have no regard for the responsibilities of authority, and they care little for keeping what they acquire. They’re forces of unmaking, and a universe under them would reflect the horror that is the Abyss, if that universe survived at all.

What does a clearer distinction between the two major species of fiends mean for your game? If you need a devious fiend that cares about souls and works on long-term schemes, use a devil. However, wholesale slaughter, pointless suffering, and terrifying devastation call for a demon. A villain or even a player character might bargain with devils, but those who conjure demons do so only to wreak havoc on their enemies. In short, the unambiguous division of the fiends is another way 4th Edition makes the game easier to design for and to play.

Acho interessante essa simplificação dos dois monstros, algo no estilo de uma volta ao básico. Os diabos são calculistas, pacientes, manipuladores, ordeiros e tentam fugir de seu plano amaldiçoado. Já os demônios são caóticos, brutais, furiosos e querem destruir tudo que vêm pela frente. Para um primeiro Monster Manual acho que está de ótimo tamanho, e é claro que logo esse conceito será expandido em suplementos, como os Fiendish Codex citados no artigo, já que muitas pontas interessantes podem ser puxadas deste conceito inicial.