All posts tagged regras

Regras ruins

Em seu post mais recente no blog da WotC, Mike Mearls falou pouco da 4ª edição, mas por outro lado levantou questões muito interessantes de game design, como por exemplo como as regras ruins geralmente surgem, e o que ele considera como um sistema de regras elegante:

The days are really starting to blur by, as each week brings a new micro-deadline. We’re doing a development pass on the Player’s Handbook for the next month or so, cleaning up bits that didn’t work in the last playtest and making sure everything fits together. It’s a little daunting.

The best comment I think we can get over a change is something like, “But that’s how I’ve always been doing it.” That’s a good sign that we’re on the right track. I think people have a natural tendency to use games in the most fun and interesting way possible. Games that push back, that drive the player away from fun or interesting possibilties, either get a dose of house rules or end up gathering dust in the back of the ole game closet.

There’s nothing more frustrating than reading a game that is so close to being fun, but in the end shoots itself in the foot with a bad rule or some other misstep. We’ve been developing feats this week, and there’s a lot of that going on. Few people like the Dodge feat in 3e, and it’s development’s goal to avoid creating feats that fall into the category in 4e.

No one ever sets out to design bad rules. Most of the time, mistakes happen for a few different reasons:

1. The designers fail to see the full impact of the rules they’ve made. A rule in isolation might look fine, but combine it with other aspects of the game and it falls apart [grifo meu]. It sounds fine that a PC who tries to stand up provokes, but it falls apart when you add in Improved Trip and spiked chains. D&D falls victim to this all the time.

2. Fun loses out to some other concern. This one is hard to design, but it’s pretty common in all sorts of games. For instance, I hate games where it’s common for one player to lose a turn. It’s a clumsy, un-fun penalty. At least with a negative modifier or restriction the player still gets to do something.

The trickiest factor here is challenge vs. fun. The best games make losing fun. The last time I played Car Wars, my vehicle was the first one shredded, but I didn’t mind because it gave me an excuse to floor it and ram one of the other cars head on.

3. Consistency trumps common sense. People like to throw around the word elegant to describe rules, but elegance doesn’t necessarily equate with good or fun rules. Is chess inelegant because all the pieces move different ways? Too often, we equate elegance with consistency. To me, elegance is using the minimum amount of effort to achieve the maximum amount of fun.

A razão número 1 é a rainha de grande parte dos problemas mecânicos do Dungeons & Dragons atualmente. Com zilhares de livros e suas classes de prestígio, talentos e classes básicas, era só uma questão de tempo até que coisas como o Pun-Pun surgissem – afinal é totalmente irreal esperar que algum escritor tenha conhecimento de todas as opções mecânicas que o jogo tem atualmente. Mas como o próprio Mearls colocou, às vezes dentro de apenas um livro isso pode acontecer, como no caso do Improved Trip (nunca me lembro se a tradução é imobilizar aprimorado ou agarrar aprimorado, duh!) dentro do Player’s Handbook em conjunto com a regra para se levantar e as armas de haste. Por outro lado essa é uma armadilha difícil de se contornar e exige um trabalho não só muito mais atento dos escritores como infinitas horas de playtest.

 

Um post simples e com ótimas questões, até já salvei nos meus favoritos e vou tentar me lembrar de ler sempre que sentar para escrever alguma mecânica. Mike Mearls é o cara!

O fim do ataque total

Em sua página pessoal (com o link ali do lado também!) , Andy Collins falou um pouco sobre o artigo Dungeon Design do Mike Mearls, e declarou oficialmente o fim da ação “ataque total” (full attack) na nova edição:

You’re not being overly optimistic, and yes we’re showing off elements that are more easily comprehensible now, since y’all don’t have a full 4E context to measure more elaborate (or detailed) elements…yet. ;)

As for the “fight in the hallway” issue, if that’s the worst-case scenario it’s still way better than the “fight in the doorway” scenario I see all too often today.

In Mike’s example, yeah, we had that fight in a hallway–except for the rounds a couple of us spent in one of the rooms, and the round or two we spent in another room, as the battle raged back and forth.

In other multi-room complexes, you might not have a “hallway” at all (just doors connecting rooms), or the hallway itself might be a room (say, 20 feet across and 50 feet long).

The key isn’t just the location, it’s the fact that we’re designing the game to encourage, even mandate movement from one place to another. More powers that reward movement, more short-range teleportation/flight, more powers that involuntarily move enemies…these all get us away from the static fights that 3E encouraged.

Oh, that and the removal of the “full attack” action. :b

Andy Collins
RPG/Minis System Design & Development Manager
Wizards of the Coast R&D

 

O Star Wars Saga já tinha dado um grande passo na direção da ênfase em combates com mais movimentação ao transformar a ação “recuar” (withdraw) em uma ação de movimento ao invés de rodada completa. Com isso os personagens podem atacar e se afastar dos oponentes ou ainda se afastar e atirarem com armas de longa distância. Fico curioso para ver como lidarão com personagens que utilizem duas armas ou armas duplas, mas novamente uma boa noticia sobre a mecânica da nova edição!

O papel do Líder e outro playtest

O site da WotC foi atualizado com dois artigos bons desta vez, o primeiro sobre os papéis dos personagens na nova edição, em especial do Líder. O segundo é um relato de playtest com algumas informações novas e mais dúvidas sobre as classes.

Let me tell you about my character, Nils, and how he contributed a few grace notes to 4th Edition’s concepts of character class roles.

Nils isn’t a 4th Edition character; he’s my old 3.5 character from Mark Jessup’s “Nine Chords” campaign. There are nine deities in Mark’s homebrew world, one deity each for the nine alignment slots. Each of the gods is a great bard whose personal pleasure and cosmic power flows from ritual bragging in front of the other gods about the kickass accomplishments of their worshippers. (Perhaps this arrangement will seem even more fitting when I mention that Mark is the director of marketing here at Wizards of the Coast…)

In a world like this, someone in the party has got to play a bard. But when the character class draft went down, everyone stepped back toward fighter or cleric or wizard or rogue, and nobody was willing to jump on the lute grenade. Mark was disappointed with us. I hate to see a disappointed DM, so I vowed to detour into bard-land just as soon as I was comfortable with Nils as a fighter.

Four greatsword-swinging levels of fighter later, Nils entered the path of lute-n-flute. My roleplaying opportunities increased because I was now the spokesman and PR agent for the PC group. But in encounters that focused on combat instead of roleplaying, Nils was forced into a mold pro basketball analysts call a “tweener,” too wimpy to play power forward alongside the ranger and the barbarians, and not capable of long-range shots like the wizard.

The PC group appreciated the singing bonuses Nils provided, and they appreciated his eventual haste spell, but supplying those bonuses meant that I spent at least two rounds at the start of combat making everyone else better without doing much of anything myself, except maybe moving around. Once I entered the combat, I survived by making judicious use of the Combat Expertise feat.

By the time the campaign slowed down to once or twice a year sessions, I’d played Nils for seven bard-only levels and obtained a much clearer perspective on the problems faced by D&D characters who don’t feel a clear niche. Fighters, rogues, clerics, and wizards all occupy pivotal places in a D&D PC group’s ecology, while the bard is singing from offstage reminding everyone not to forget the +1 or +2 bonuses they’re providing to attacks and saves against fear.

When Andy (Collins), James (Wyatt), and I put together the basic structure of 4th Edition, we started with the conviction that we would make sure every character class filled a crucial role in the player character group. When the bard enters the 4th Edition stage, she’ll have class features and powers that help her fill what we call the Leader role. As a character whose songs help allies fight better and recover hit points, the bard is most likely to fit into a player character group that doesn’t have a cleric, the quintessential divine leader.

Unlike their 3e counterparts, every Leader class in the new edition is designed to provide their ally-benefits and healing powers without having to use so many of their own actions in the group-caretaker mode. A cleric who wants to spend all their actions selflessly will eventually be able to accomplish that, but a cleric who wants to mix it up in melee or fight from the back rank with holy words and holy symbol attacks won’t constantly be forced to put aside their damage-dealing intentions. A certain amount of healing flows from the Leader classes even when they opt to focus on slaying their enemies directly.

Does every group need a Leader class? Not necessarily. Is it worth having more than one Leader in a party? Maybe.

We settled on crucial roles rather than on necessary roles. 4th Edition has mechanics that allow groups that want to function without a Leader, or without a member of the other three roles, to persevere. Adventuring is usually easier if the group includes a Leader, a Defender, a Striker, and a Controller, but none of the four roles is absolutely essential. Groups that double or triple up on one role while leaving other roles empty are going to face different challenges. They’ll also have different strengths. That’s the type of experiment you’ll be running in eight months. Before then, we’ll have more to say about the other roles.

One last thing before I go, since I started this note off by talking about Nils. This time, let me say a few things to Nils directly: “Nils, it’s been fun playing you. But I’ll see you again in a future incarnation, and this time around when Al-Faregh the wizard and Jum the barbarian are chopping up beholders, you’re going to be fighting on the same playing field instead of handing out Gatorade cups and singing the national anthem.”

Já estava na hora da WotC perceber o paradoxo do bardo e do monge – classes cuja principal característica é serem capaz de fazer um pouco de tudo de maneira razoável em um sistema de jogo extremamente focado na especialização. E convenhamos, dar suporte aos outros personagens nem era bem uma especialização e mesmo que fosse o clérigo podia fazê-la de maneira bem melhor.

 

Então além de termos a confirmação que os bardos estarão presentes na 4ª edição (ainda que não seja no primeiro Player’s Handbook), sabemos que ele agora será focado em suportar o grupo sem gastar todas suas ações para fazer isso, uma característica de todas as classes que ocupem o papel de Líder, que finalmente deve tornar o papel de suporte algo divertido de se jogar em um combate.

 

Agora o segundo artigo, um misterioso relato de playtest de :

We work hard at Wizards, but some of our work is all play. I recruited my gaming buddies to test the game further at home and to see what its like to DM with the new rules. The players got to test the character side of things, and I got to experience adventure building and monsters.

My players like a reason to adventure together beyond being mutually employed by the same bloke who relies on the local watering hole to hire mercenaries. So they created a mostly human party of 1st level PCs who are all affiliated with a local count. The warlord, Domna, is the baron’s youngest daughter, and Tian, the rogue, is Domna’s lifelong friend and also the son of the leader of baron’s personal mercenary troop. Sasha, the wizard, is daughter to the baron’s chancellor, and guarding her is Robozcniek, a warforged fighter. Rounding out the group is Heron, and eladrin ranger who was a childhood friend of Tian and Domna. Long story short, the political situation made the count’s having a team of specialists with a little legal authority a good thing. My having a party under direct influence of a local ruler was even better.

I wanted to whip up something that showcased the new game’s tech, but I wanted to do it quickly. Using Own K. C. Stevens’s A Dark and Stormy Knight as inspiration, I designed a haunted tomb under a tor. One of the count’s barons had been rewarding retiring soldiers with frontier land near the tor, and these farmers recently spotted goblin scouts ranging toward a fallen tower built atop the tor by citizens of a long-gone hobgoblin kingdom. Then a little girl disappeared, along with some livestock. The count dispatched Domna and her friends to investigate the situation.

After traveling to the outlying farmsteads, which were fortified yards surrounded by fields, and speaking with one of the farmers, the PCs determined that one home might have come under attack the night before. They investigated, and they soon saw the farm’s stockade gate was open and the inner yard, where livestock was usually kept at night, was empty but drenched in blood. Heron noticed some large wolf tracks leading into the yard, and the party cautiously entered, expecting goblins.

Right they were. To the east, Heron spotted saddled wolves in the barn and a goblin archer in the barn’s loft. Tian spied another goblin peeking out of the modest farmhouse to the north. Neither chose to warn their oblivious comrades, so a surprise round was my players’ first contact with 4th Edition combat.

Their second impression came squarely from the three arrows with which Heron skewered the hapless goblin sharpshooter in the loft. That poor goblin fired on Heron, missing but triggering an immediate counterattack from the ranger, who followed up with two more arrows on his turn. The sharpshooter was dead before the third arrow struck home.

Taking a cue from Heron’s boldness, thinking the fight might be over quickly, Tian rushed to the house despite protests from Domna that he was overextending himself and thereby the party. Tian arrived at the closed front door and threw it open, but couldn’t quite reach the javelin-wielding miscreant within.

Too far out in front, Tian and Heron soon learned their mistake. The wolves rushed Heron, easily flanking him and pulling him to the ground. The goblin skirmisher in the house hurled a black-shafted javelin at Tian and scored a critical hit! Tian lost more than half his hit points in one blow, and to add insult to injury, the goblin then scampered out of the house’s open back door to a tree on its west side.

But then the first regular round started. Domna rushed a wolf and missed it, after shouting encouragement to her friends (providing a small bonus to them). The wolves continued to tear at Heron, almost sending the unfortunate ranger to death’s door. Sasha used a wizard strike with her staff, not only injuring a wolf, but also pushing it away from the prone Heron. This gave Heron the room he needed to stand, move away from his assailants, and regain a few hit points with a second wind. On his first regular turn, Tian used his second wind, then pursued the goblin by leaving the front door and running to intercept at the tree. He missed the wily skirmisher with his attack. The goblin cackled and backed away, then hurled another javelin at Tian—for another natural 20! Down Tian went, dying. Moving closer to Tian, the skirmisher started to reach for the knife on his belt to finish the rogue off. Robozcniek cut that thought short, literally, running across the battlefield, then charging the skirmisher and finishing the little dastard with one swift longsword stroke.

On the second regular round, Domna struck the wounded wolf, trying to keep it off Heron. That wolf attacked Domna, but she fended it off with her shield. But the uninjured wolf smelled blood, and it took Heron down again, this time knocking the eladrin out. Sasha maneuvered to blast both wolves with another strike from her staff, pushing the one attacking Heron away again. Robozcniek rushed across the battlefield a second time, and he terribly wounded the wolf that had been attacking Heron.

As the initiative count came to the top again, Domna used her tactical acumen to attack in such a way that the wolf she hit opened itself up to Robozcniek. The warforged struck true, and the wolf collapsed in a heap. Badly wounded and alone against many enemies, the remaining wolf tucked tail and ran, but Sasha was having none of it. She pulled out all the stops and set off a fiery blast around the fleeing beast. It tumbled down, still smoldering.

Their first real battle over, the heroes still standing aided their fallen friends—who had learned a valuable lesson. Investigation of the farmstead and more adventure remained ahead of them.

Misterioso principalmente por não nos dar nenhum background do jogo. Temos um guerreiro warforged no grupo, mas em nenhum momento ele fala que a aventura se passa em Eberron ou sequer cita algum tipo de problema para adaptar a raça para 4ª edição, como no relato do Logan Bonner. E numa boa, todo mundo que me conhece sabe que eu piro em Eberron, mas a simples idéia de Warforgeds no mundo default de D&D me da muito medo, já que eles vão cair ali sem todo o background bacana da Last War e da Casa Cannith. Tomara mesmo que seja só um personagem isolado, e que a raça não seja incorporada no PH.

 

Por outro lado temos os Eladrin, que cada vez mais parecem certos como raça básica, o que faz sentido já que seriam uma espécie de contra parte benigna dos tieflings. Ainda fico curioso sobre o motivo dos aasimar não fazerem este papel, mas nem me importo muito, afinal um caótico e bom é sempre melhor do que um leal e bom em qualquer situação : )

 

Também temos o primeiro relato dos Warlord, nova classe básica que me parece com uma espécie de bardo combativo, e cujas habilidades funcionam enquanto a personagem desce a porrada nos lobos, seja fornecendo bônus ao resto do grupo ou facilitando os ataques do warforged.

 

Finalmente temos a primeira mostra do ataque menor e liberado do mago, o wizard strike que me pareceu um ataque que pode ser usado tanto no combate corpo a corpo (usado no primeiro lobo) como à distância (no segundo e terceiro) , mas não tenho certeza. De qualquer forma pareceu muito legal, esse relato de playtest certamente foi mais interessante e útil que os dois últimos!

Playtests, gnomos, warlocks e mecânica social

A novidade de hoje da WotC foi o relato de uma sessão de playtest do Dave Noonan. O grupo da aventura, que se passa em Eberron, era composto inicialmente por um warforged paladino, um humano warblade/warmage, um elan psion, e um gnomo do caos warlock. A conversão deste grupo para a 4ª edição parece ter sido bem complicada, e o simples fato de ser composto por um gnomo warlock gerou um bocado de especulações e questionamentos nos fóruns da WotC.

Thursday Night, Wizards Conference Room (Wayne Manor).
Campaign Arc: Castle Smoulderthorn
DM: Dave Noonan
Players: Bruce Cordell, Richard Baker, Logan Bonner, and Toby Latin

I’ve been playing a chaos gnome warlock in Dave Noonan’s 3rd Edition Eberron game for a while now. When it came time to start playtesting the new edition with non-Wizards employees, Dave decided to convert the current campaign instead of beginning anew. We’re smack-dab in the middle of the floating fortress Castle Smoulderthorn, so it would have been unfortunate if we didn’t get a chance to untether its bound elemental and send the whole evil place floating off to Siberys.

I was playing with Rich Baker, Bruce Cordell, and Toby Latin-Stoermer (our resident non-WotC employee). Our characters were Karhun (originally a warblade/warmage played by Rich), Infandous (an elan psion played by Bruce), Hammer (a warforged paladin played by Toby), and Dessin (a chaos gnome warlock played by myself).

Conversion was far from 100% accurate. Not only have the classes changed, but we’re also using plenty of stuff that wasn’t in the playtest document. Several of us needed new races. Luckily, we had some versions kicking around. These hadn’t been developed yet, but we used them anyway. Rich’s character was tougher. He was playing a warblade/warmage in the 3rd Edition game, which didn’t really convert at all. Fortunately, he was able to pick a class that was focused on tactics, and he picked up some wizard powers to feel similar to the old character. We didn’t have a psion for Bruce, so he rolled up a wizard and tweaked some of the names to fit thematically.

The characters were pretty different now, but we all had some pretty interesting stuff to do. We were very curious what Toby would think since he wasn’t familiar with the system like the rest of us. Turns out he enjoyed himself (but we found out the warforged he was using was kinda broken).

We started off the session just after the encounter we had last week. Before we had time to heal up, we were attacked again. Our enemies crossed a snake theme with a fire theme, so they had a fire snake, a fire sorcerer who turned into a snake, and six azers who brought plenty of fire but forgot about the snake bit. Dessin, my warlock, mostly stayed at the back. He was just making enemies attack each other, firing some eldritch blasts, and concentrating fire on badly damaged foes (turns out that makes him do more damage). Most of the azers got taken down relatively quickly. The big surprise of the encounter was the sorcerer becoming a snake and grabbing our poor paladin. Turns out that even if you’re a snake, and even if you’re on fire, adventurers will still kill you.

After the battle, it was a little different than the procedure that follows a 3E battle. Turns out the enemies don’t need magic weapons to be effective (because the math doesn’t need them to), so we didn’t have a bunch of magic loot that we didn’t really need and would only end up selling. It was a bit of a disconnect, but nothing we’d miss in the long run. We got to cut out the middleman and grabbed some coins and XP (though later we did find some cool magic loot that we could actually use).

Em resposta a essas críticas e com mais algumas informações sobre as mecânicas sociais David Noonan postou em seu blog:

Thursday Night D&D: What the heck, let’s tighten up the feedback loop on this whole “Dave’s playtest game” thing. Logan’s playtest report is up on D&D Insider. It cheered me greatly to see that message-board cries of “Warlocks are in! Gnomes are in!” were immediately followed by by message-board cries of “Not necessarily, dude.”

Digression About Info Flow: For race and class stuff specifically, I believe the current plan is that we stay mum until the relevant preview books come out this winter. So mum’s the word there.

I saw a reasonable criticism of the playtest reports here. It’s a fair cop: Why don’t we give you straight 4e playtests without including elements that may or may not make the cut for the PH/MM/DMG? You get two responses from me on that score. First, most of our internal playtest tables are doing exactly that–straight 4e goodness, often starting brand new at 1st level. Only a few tables went the “faithful reinterpretation” route that my table did. Second, one of the things we test is the away-from-table design process. How hard was it for Logan to crank out a reasonable chaos gnome, for example? Was his assessment of its balance accurate? Did he have enough design space to work with? See, those are pretty nifty questions. We live for stuff like that.

One other thing: D&D Insider is going to give you playtest reports from a lot of the other tables. My guys are just prolific, I suppose.

Back to the Thursday Night Game: You’ve read a bit about Castle Smoulderthorn. Well, last night was the final session in that adventure (although the campaign will certainly continue). And it started out with a huge social challenge: The PCs find themselves in the sanctum sanctorum with a lich (probably a tough encounter all by himself) and a blue dragon (definitely a climax encounter). I’ll cut out a lot of backstory by simply saying that the dragon has been attacking the castle to get to the PCs inside it and the lich isn’t sure why either the dragon or the PCs are attacking his floating castle–but he’s not happy about it. So a combination negotiation/debate/trial thing happened.

…And out comes a new iteration of our social challenge rules. We extracted a ton of useful data out of the test, and I’ll probably spend the rest of the morning typing that up for my colleagues and messing with some the rules. But I can share some broad outlines with you.

1) I had perfect attendance at my table last night: 7 PCs, plus the dragon, plus the lich. A truly participatory social challenge at a table that big is going to be chaotic no matter how you structure it. Or at least you can’t come up with rules that muzzle my players.

2) There was a lot of variety in both the mechanical techniques used (the checks/rolls/etc.) and the actual table dialogue. That’s a pretty high priority, so it was good to see it emerge in actual play. But my table is predisposed to show those behaviors, so I can’t see anything more definite than “it’s a good system for people who throw themselves into that play style wholeheartedly.”

3) The system we were testing involves skill checks (big surprise, huh?). One of the things I found fascinating was that some players preferred to deliver their dialogue, then roll the skill check and report the result. Others preferred to roll the skill check first, then deliver dialogue that matched their result (good or bad). The system works either way, so I might just make it explicit that you can “roll, then talk” or “talk, then roll.”

4) There is a totally valid D&D playstyle that haaaaates the idea of social interactions being resolved with a die roll. This system should work for that playstyle, too, once you flip a few switches. That just isn’t the playstyle we were testing last night.

The upshot? We had about 20 minutes of great dialogue at the table, then the lich was sufficiently convinced that the dragon was dangerously insane that he cautiously aided the PCs in attacking the dragon. Of course the lich turned on the PCs as the dragon fight was winding down. But the social challenge mattered, because the PCs were able to fight the dragon (with a little help), then fight the lich. That sure beats fighting dragon + lich.

Numa boa, até agora pelo que ele falou não vi muitas mudanças na mecânica social. Ok, você fala e rola, ou rola e fala, mas isso não é basicamente o que temos na 3.5? Ele devia ter gastos algumas dessas trocentas linhas para falar algo realmente novo, ou nem falar nada…

 

Tô quase deletando o post aqui, porque ficou enorme e convenhamos, meio inutil : )